Cyro: toggle on hold layer switch occasionally fails, gets stuck in 2nd layer when releasing the layer button

Loss Mentality

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Apr 7, 2023
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I've got a Cyro profile called MStd with button 14 set to use layering such that, while I hold that button, it will shift to another profile called MStdShift until I release that button, at which time it will return to the MStd profile. I am, of course, running both of these profiles in the Software app (i.e. not from Cyro on-board memory).

Every so often - say, several times an hour - I will notice that the Software is stuck on the layer profile, MStdShift. When this happens, I'm forced to switch out of whatever game I'm playing to manually select the base profile in the Azeron Software. It will then will be okay for a while, but will eventually end up stuck in the 2nd layer profile again. Obviously, this is not ideal, especially in multiplayer games where the game can't be paused while I'm toggled into the Azeron Software.

As I don't typically notice it right away - there are only a few buttons mapped differently in the MStdShift layer - it's hard to say exactly when and how this is happening, but my presumption is that the problem occurs when the Software fails to switch back to the base MStd profile (i.e. after I've activated the layer by holding the button, the Software doesn't switch back to the base layer when I release the button). But, since it takes a minute to notice the problem, I can't say for sure that something else isn't going on (e.g. is it somehow spontaneously switching to the 2nd layer when I'm not touching the layer button).

I'll note that I have no other buttons on either of these profiles set for layering or profile selection - all buttons are mapped to keyboard buttons, save for the one button mapped to profile switching. Thus, I don't think it's possible that this issue is happening due to me accidentally hitting some other button that is set to switch profiles or do layering.

I've exported logs and attached them. Note that I have a Cyborg active as well, though it's running profiles from onboard memory, of course (feature request: I would love to be able to run two instances of Azeron SW, one for Cyborg and one for Cyro).

ETA: I just took a look at the logs. They appear to be logging info level messages only, which seem to just be button presses. I can't see how that will be very useful in diagnosing this problem, so if there's a way to increase the log level, let me know - I can do that and then send logs again

Here is the setup of the base profile button in the MStd profile:
1688659898001.png


Here is the setup of the MStdShift button:
1688660267706.png
 

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Im this guy

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Single press will switch to other layer.
Button hold will temporarily switch over to other layer till you release it. ( if toggle on hold is checked )
 
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Loss Mentality

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Apr 7, 2023
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Thanks for the reply.

Okay, so I just tested it. I can't seem to press and release the button quickly enough to make it stay at the second layer, but I can believe that it's right on the edge such that rarely, in the heat of playing a game, I manage to press it quickly enough for it to get stuck in the 2nd layer.

I would like to find a way to completely disable ever staying in the 2nd layer, i.e. I'm hoping for a true shift state here - I want it to work like the shift key on a keyboard in all instances. It should never work like the caps lock key.

Should I be using something besides Single Press to prevent this?

Double Press is definitely out - I don't want to have to double-tap to get to the 2nd layer.

Long Press requires a longer hold time, but I want the layer toggle to be fast enough to not be noticeable to me (I want to hold the layer button and quickly press another button in the 2nd layer, then release the layer button, with the only delay coming from how fast I can physically manipulate the keys, just like holding shift to get a capital letter while typing). If I use Long Press and set that mode's Trigger Delay to a small number of milliseconds such that the experience of using Long Press is no different from Single Press, will this prevent all instances of getting stuck in the 2nd layer?

Or do I need some other combination of settings?

Thanks again.
 

Loss Mentality

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Apr 7, 2023
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@Im this guy

So I just tried what I asked about in my previous post: using the Long Press option with Trigger Delay set very low, so it feels like using Single Press. Unfortunately, after playing for a bit, I still encountered an instance of the problem: I got stuck in the 2nd layer.

Again, I can't make this happen easily or on command. Maybe I am misunderstanding your post to me, but I can't discern a difference in press lengths as to whether I get stuck in the 2nd layer or not. Even in game, nearly every time I activate the 2nd layer, it works as I want. And out of game I just spent another 30 seconds repeatedly hitting the layer switch button as fast as I could, and it never got stuck in the 2nd layer. So it only seems to happen rarely, in unexpected moments.

Of course, a key difference between in-game vs. the experiment of me trying to cause the problem to happen by repeatedly hitting the layer button, is that I'm always hitting some other button in the 2nd layer while in-game.

I did also experiment with the Toggle On Hold setting, just to be sure I fully understood how it works. When I turn that setting off, the layer button toggles between the two profiles each time you press and release the button, which is the behavior I don't want, of course.

So it seems that it's proper for me to have Toggle On Hold enabled - that gives me the functionality I want. But it also seems that, every once in a while, the Toggle On Hold functionality fails, leaving me stuck in the 2nd layer.

Any other info you can give me would be appreciated.
 
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Loss Mentality

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Apr 7, 2023
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@Im this guy

After more experimentation, I've found that several clicks on the layer key in a row can get it stuck in the 2nd layer. This is without hitting any other keys in either layer. I'm using layering for Hotbar slot selection in a game, with 5 slots tied to five-way hat switch in the base layer, and 5 more tied to the five-way hat switch in the 2nd layer (this is the main reason I bought the Cyro - the hat switch it has, which is like the one on the Madcatz MMO7, which is no longer made, and MMO7 is breaking down).

What's happening is sometimes I fumble about for the right slot and may end up clicking the layer key several times in a short amount of time. And sometimes - not always - several clicks on the layer button leaves it stuck in the 2nd layer (and if you do more fairly rapid clicks on the layer button while stuck in the 2nd layer, it'll eventually end up returning to the first layer). And just to be sure I'm clear, I never want to end up stuck in the 2nd layer. I want the 2nd layer active only while I hold the layer button.

I tried to figure out if there was a specific rate of clicking needed to get stuck in the 2nd layer. But I can't seem to identify any specific cadence of clicking that guarantees it will happen within a specific amount of clicks. needed to make it happen. Basically, if I click only the layer button for a few seconds, at varying rates, it will always eventually get stuck in the 2nd layer. Still, it feels like there's a specific rate of clicking or number of clicks that brings it out, and I've just not discovered it yet.

Anyway, it's a killer when it happens - I just got killed in a game due to not realizing I was stuck in the 2nd layer from a previous hot slot selection attempt. So I went for a gun in a slot accessible from the base layer but ended up with a shovel in my hand. And I desperately needed that gun - the thing killing me was not fazed when I hit it with the shovel. o_O

I do not see any indication in Azeron Software that this is expected behavior, nor can I find any way to disable it. If I'm missing something, please let me know. If this is intended behavior, I would really like to see an option added to the Software to disable it. Or, if it's a bug, I'd love to see it fixed. This is enough to render the cyro nearly unusable for me, which is a shame, as I otherwise love it. Thus, any attention Azeron could pay to this would be greatly appreciated.

To aid Azeron in identifying the problem, I have taken a screen video. It shows the Azeron software, where you can observe me clicking the layer button (button #14) rapidly. At first, you'll see that the 1st layer is returned to upon each release of the button, but eventually, it will get stuck in the 2nd layer. I then click some more, and eventually, it returns to the 1st layer.

The setup of button #14 in each layer is the same as described in my first post above (please see the screenshots in that post).

Thanks.
 

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Last edited:

Im this guy

Moderator
Staff member
Nov 5, 2021
1,126
133
63
@Im this guy

After more experimentation, I've found that several clicks on the layer key in a row can get it stuck in the 2nd layer. This is without hitting any other keys in either layer. I'm using layering for Hotbar slot selection in a game, with 5 slots tied to five-way hat switch in the base layer, and 5 more tied to the five-way hat switch in the 2nd layer (this is the main reason I bought the Cyro - the hat switch it has, which is like the one on the Madcatz MMO7, which is no longer made, and MMO7 is breaking down).

What's happening is sometimes I fumble about for the right slot and may end up clicking the layer key several times in a short amount of time. And sometimes - not always - several clicks on the layer button leaves it stuck in the 2nd layer (and if you do more fairly rapid clicks on the layer button while stuck in the 2nd layer, it'll eventually end up returning to the first layer). And just to be sure I'm clear, I never want to end up stuck in the 2nd layer. I want the 2nd layer active only while I hold the layer button.

I tried to figure out if there was a specific rate of clicking needed to get stuck in the 2nd layer. But I can't seem to identify any specific cadence of clicking that guarantees it will happen within a specific amount of clicks. needed to make it happen. Basically, if I click only the layer button for a few seconds, at varying rates, it will always eventually get stuck in the 2nd layer. Still, it feels like there's a specific rate of clicking or number of clicks that brings it out, and I've just not discovered it yet.

Anyway, it's a killer when it happens - I just got killed in a game due to not realizing I was stuck in the 2nd layer from a previous hot slot selection attempt. So I went for a gun in a slot accessible from the base layer but ended up with a shovel in my hand. And I desperately needed that gun - the thing killing me was not fazed when I hit it with the shovel. o_O

I do not see any indication in Azeron Software that this is expected behavior, nor can I find any way to disable it. If I'm missing something, please let me know. If this is intended behavior, I would really like to see an option added to the Software to disable it. Or, if it's a bug, I'd love to see it fixed. This is enough to render the cyro nearly unusable for me, which is a shame, as I otherwise love it. Thus, any attention Azeron could pay to this would be greatly appreciated.

To aid Azeron in identifying the problem, I have taken a screen video. It shows the Azeron software, where you can observe me clicking the layer button (button #14) rapidly. At first, you'll see that the 1st layer is returned to upon each release of the button, but eventually, it will get stuck in the 2nd layer. I then click some more, and eventually, it returns to the 1st layer.

The setup of button #14 in each layer is the same as described in my first post above (please see the screenshots in that post).

Thanks.
We will adjust it with the next software release